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Macka
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 08:46 am |
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Greetings,
My name is Esther Mckay (retired) Detective Senior Constable, 17 years service with the NSW Police Force, Australia. I worked for 15 years in Forensic Services and was retired medially unfit in 2001 with PTSD.
I am the author of Crime Scene - True Stories from the life of a forensic investigator, Penguin USA 2008.
Crime Scene explores the extraordinary dangers and risks of Forensic Work. I'm interested in feedback or opinion on how PTSD effects forensic workers in the U.S. I am the President of the Police Post Trauma Support Group, to my knowledge the first in the world of such trauma groups who assist serving and retired officers to deal with the effects of trauma in the workplace.
Police Culture formally denied officers assistance however we are seeing positive change in care provided by police agencies.
PTSD is a real and indelible side effect of working in traumatic conditions for lengthy tours of duty. What are your thoughts?
Macka.
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seagulls
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Posted: Fri Jun 20th, 2008 12:15 am |
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"PTSD is a real and indelible side effect of working in traumatic conditions for lengthy tours of duty. What are your thoughts?"
Macka,
As a former wife of someone who worked in law enforement I am grateful for what you are doing. My former husband was diagnosed with PTSD after years of work (he was on an SRT team as a sniper). It was NOT pretty!!
I was and still am disgusted with how things were handled in his department. After a rape/hostage incident, non law enforcement personnel was forced to three months of therapy after not even witnessing the incident. They however knew the woman being held hostage. However, the members of the team who witnessed the horific event were only spoken to in a briefing. After many family members (myself included as well as other spouses and even parents) spoke with the captain of the team about thier behavior after this particular incident, they were spoken to in a group setting; "if anyone here needs help please raise your hand." I'm sure you know how many of these proud men raised thier hand....NONE. Nothing was done.
I believe it has been 10 years since this event and we are now divorced but it still angers me that the dept. did not do anything. That being said, I am very grateful for what you are doing. I'm sorry that I do not know anything about the forensics (that you were looking for) but I still wanted to share my thoughts.
God Bless you and all of your officers in your program. Thank you so much!
Seagulls
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Macka
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Posted: Fri Jun 20th, 2008 10:18 am |
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Thank you Seagulls for posting on the topic of PTSD, I was starting to wondering if anyone would post at all as this topic is one in which many people are reluctant to discuss. I appreciate your honesty and would firstly like to say how sorry I am that you and your family had to go through the distress of seeing a loved one effected by trauma but also the lack of assistance by the employer, which ultimately impacts on family members. We have a spouse support group which runs alongside our trauma group and only yesterday at our monthly meeting we had a teenager address the group on how difficult it was growing up with PTSD as her father had served as a police officer.
Your story rings true with similar situations here in Australia. Quite a few years ago we had 3 disasters in a very short time frame. All forensic officers called to the scenes were gathered in a room some 3 months later and asked if anyone needed help. You guessed it, not one of us put our hand up, like me most of the 30 people in the room now suffer from PTSD to varying degrees.
I find it appalling to hear the men and women at the coal face were not debriefed or offered counselling yet the civil servants were all offered help. This seems to stem from the mindset that police or emergency workers are suppose to be super human and not effected by traumatic situations. Of course, we all know this is not the case and we are all human. I found that my emotional reactions to unatural situations were in hindsight natural however at the time I thought it was normal to feel fear, anxiety, depression and resort to alcohol abuse. Just part of the job, some would say.
I've seen a lot of divorce, relationship breakdowns, substance abuse and anger in those effected by PTSD. However, once help is sought and the person effected understands what has happened to them as a result of the exposure to trauma they can learn strategies to improve their lifestyle. Gone are the days of sending young people into dangerous scenes and situations without adequate training and education. My story has helped bridge the gap in this respect and I'm pleased to say my book is used in quite a few commands to train the probationary constables on what to look out for and how to better equip themselves should they feel they aren't coping.
The only way forward in my opinion is education, kindness and compassion. We have a long way to go but we have made a positive start and if it saves lives, families, relationships and careers it's got to be a good thing.
Blessings
Macka
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Sunshine
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Posted: Tue Jul 15th, 2008 03:20 am |
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I am going to be starting classes in this field. Any word of advice for someone who is starting out? I am a little worried how well I'll be able to handle any incidents involving children. I know this isn't what you were looking for but I'm new here and didn't know where else to post this.
Thanks in advance,
Sunshine
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seagulls
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Posted: Tue Jul 15th, 2008 10:11 am |
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Sunshine,
I don't know much about the subject from your point of view, but from my point of view (my story is posted above), I can tell you that it is so different from a childs perspective. As a spouse, I knew what the root of the problem was. From my childrens point of view, they did not know the extend of what thier daddy did for a living. They knew he left in a blue uniform and came home. I think when dealing with children in this type of situation the job just seems like an excuse for this type of behavior. It is important to let the children know that they did nothing wrong!!! My former husband and I used to attend couseling from someone who specialized in this area, I was told to just put up with it (abuse) because he had a stressful job. I can promise you that he was WRONG.....no one should put up with abuse for any reason. More "tools" would have been useful.
Thank you also for your service, I wish there was something like this for me.
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Macka
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 11:41 pm |
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Hi Sunshine,
Nobody can fully prepare you for how you will cope when faced with traumatic incidents involving children however I do believe education on how you may respond and what feelings and emotions you will experience and why this occurs will help you understand the way we as humans react. I urge you to read my book Crime Scene - True stories from the life of a forensic investigator, widely available in the U.S and online. It will help you understand how the slow buildup of working with trauma can effect emergency workers and assist you to identify warning signs before mental health is eroded. I wish I had forewarning in this area prior to embarking on my forensic career. I believe if I had I wouldn't have lost my career to post traumatic stress disorder.
When I was a young crime scene examiner I would often offer to attend jobs involving child deaths because my colleagues had children of their own and prior to having my own kids I thought it would save them the heartache of attending scenes that would impact on their home life. What I realised later, when I eventually had my own family was that all the incidents I'd attended involving children came back to haunt me. This resulted in paranoia and fear about something happening to my own children. My son as a consequence suffers separation anxiety.
Seagulls has also described the impact on family life and children growning up. Secondary PTSD in family members is a common consequence of working in trauma so this is a very important issue to consider.
I have learnt that the major side effect of witnessing child deaths is that I was stuck in the moment, I couldn't see the families had moved forward in their lives. For instance, that they may have had more children, remarried or become grandparents. Joy can come back into the lives of those who have suffered but for me I was stuck at the scene and couldn't see a way forward. You never get to grieve for those lost, as your work continues and you constantly move from one job to the next. I have learnt to grieve and let go of the moment, to see that life has moved on and that simply to let things be.
I hope this has helped. I also hope your forensic course will contain subjects covering mental health and how to deal with trauma? If not, you must seek the information yourself and make sure you are well and truly equiped to not only look after your physical health but also your mental health. We need good young people to commit to this important work so we must care for them aswell.
Kind regards, Macka.
Last edited on Thu Jul 17th, 2008 12:47 am by Macka
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gatorgirl
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Posted: Fri Aug 1st, 2008 03:45 pm |
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Hi everyone,
I worked in the crime scene unit for about 2 years until I relocated for my spouses job. Its been about 6months since I have worked a scene and I have found myself reliving some of my scenes at night. Its hard to articulate exactly what I am feeling, but I think it may have to do with PTSD. I was 24 when I started, and within my first month on the job I worked 3 major homicide cases. At that point the only forensic training I had was a law enforcement photography class and I processed a few burglaries. My supervisor assigned me as the primary investigator on one of the major scenes and I do not feel I was equiped for it. Although my reports were approved with no problem, I am worried sick about the upcoming trial this fall.(2 years after the incident) I am losing sleep about it and actually find myself worring about seeing the suspect in the courtroom. The victim was brutally raped and murdered and she was the same age as myself. And I also worry about someone breaking into my house at night and doing the same thing to me. I try to talk to my spouse about it but he thinks I am being silly. He also asks that I not talk about what I have seen because it upsets him.
I am no longer in the field right now. (Although I am working on my master's in forensics) The agency I worked for did not provide any counselling that I was made aware of. Although, I didnt think I was having any problems until recently. For the most part I write in journals and go to the gym when I feel stressed about any of it. It helps, but its still there. The job definitely changed who I was.
I had heard about PTSD but associated it with military personel or the survivors of disasters. I didn't think I would have any issues. I wish I would have had more training before being put into those situations.
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cjustice
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Posted: Sat Aug 2nd, 2008 01:33 am |
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Thank you to everyone for the ongoing conversation. As a means of reference, you might want to look at the books written by law enforcement officials about stress at http://www.police-writers.com/law_enforcement_stress.html
And, I highly recommend Ester's book at
http://www.police-writers.com/esther_mckay.html
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Macka
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Posted: Sat Aug 2nd, 2008 11:12 am |
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gatorgirl,
I am shocked to hear that in the year 2000 we still send young crime scene examiners into major scenes without adequate training. This was my own experience in the 1980's but I was hoping we have learnt a great deal since then. One of the major stressors relating to my former forensic work was the total lack of training prior to embarking upon major scenes and what I know now as I recover from PTSD is this played a major role in the development of the illness.
Your description of flashbacks, fear and paranoia of a similar crime happening to you is a direct result of the exposure to trauma at a young age without adequate training or support. I urge you to seek assistance in finding a qualified health care professional to help you work through these symptoms. Unfortunately PTSD and associated anxiety and depression never really goes away, we must learn strategies to better manage our reactions and learn to live with the aftermath. It would also be helpful for your spouse to read my book Crime Scene which will assist in understanding the true effects of working in this vocation. It will also reveal the difficulties we as crime scene examiners face in discussing our work with others.
In relation to the upcoming court proceedings, is it possible to find a mentor who you trust that could read over your statement and examine your evidence so as to assist with your court preparation. As a young Crime Scene Examiner I found myself in a similar situation however my boss was always there to assist me and give me the confidence I needed. It made all the difference..
With every good wish, Macka.
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gatorgirl
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Posted: Sat Aug 2nd, 2008 11:58 pm |
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Thank you, I will definitley take your advice and read your book. Unfortunately, my former supervisor has retired and I have moved 1,000 miles away. I went over my report with the senior technician (who has 27 yrs on the job) before I left and he said I should be fine. The deposition went well and I know all I have to do is tell the truth about my findings....
This case will be a death penalty case. The evidence recovered makes it almost impossible for the verdict to be anything other than guilty. And although I know this man was responsible for the crime, part of me feels guilty because I know what I found at the scene will help to put him on death row and eventually die. But part of me feels really good about that too. :-)
Thank you for turning the lightbulb on for me. I am glad to know that what I am feeling is "normal" for what I have experinced. It makes me feel better to know that when I get back to working scenes, I will understand how to manage my feelings. I wish I would have known about this before I started.....but it will definitely help for the future!
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Macka
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Posted: Wed Aug 6th, 2008 11:26 am |
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It's wonderful to know our new generation of forensic investigators are seeking out the information they need to better equip them for this type of work. There are many rewards for committing to forensic work and it can be such a fulfilling career. As long as we remember to nuture ourselves and look after our mental health because without it we cannot do our very best. Good luck with the upcoming trial and best wishes for a long, healthy and happy forensic career.
Macka
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