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Crim112 Martinez
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Posted: Wed Oct 11th, 2006 06:41 pm |
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| If police officers used PJ tactics it would not be consider noble cause misconduct since it goes against the organization rules. Officers are recognized for fully understanding and obeying the law. I think that volunteer groups should come under constitutional and ethical standards as criminal justice practitioners as long as they have the knowledge and the education to do so. Yes I believe that certain types of crimes and criminals diminish the rule of law because many people consider certain acts unethical yet it does not go against the constitution for example the virtual child pornography. The similar ethics and morals the two groups agree with is not favoring, pornography, pedophiles, etc. They do differ in values because one group beliefs in basically taking the law into their own hands and the other one beliefs that the criminal justice system shoul punish the individuals.
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crim112Garcia
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Posted: Wed Nov 8th, 2006 09:35 pm |
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In a perfect world I would like for law official to use SOME of the PJ tactics but it could never happened. It seems a little like entrapment.
I do not think that such groups should be thought as law enforcement. They should not be able to take law into their own hands. We should let law enforcement officials deal with the problems we pay them to do.
Yes, If volunteers work with law enforcement they should have to play by the same rules as law enforcement officials do.
I do not think that some criminals diminish the need for the rule of law, that is why we have laws.
Ethics is what is right or wrong, we base laws on ethics. Values are the beliefs that we were learned throughout life. Morels are the expectations that society expects us to live or act by.
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crim112Garcia
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Posted: Wed Nov 8th, 2006 09:39 pm |
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| I agree with you on that we could use a little help, but my only problem with PJ is that some one should be held accountable for their actions.
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Crim112Gonzales
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Posted: Mon Nov 13th, 2006 07:10 am |
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I personally like the methods that P.J. uses and think that the sight is very entertaining. However, if these tactics were used my law enforcement it would not only be noble cause musconduct, but entrapment as well. Their methods just keep pushing and pushing. What the targeted people are doing seems wrong and just plain dispicable, but there is no proof that they are going to act upon anything.
I do not think that they should be held under the same standards. They can't take law into their own hands and aren't official government employees, therefore they must only abide by the laws that everyone else must abide by.
I think that volunteers that reguarly work with law enforcement agencies should be held to higher standards. They are affiliated with law enforcement and can give that particular agency a bad name depending upon their actions. Who is to say the line was crossed? A so-called "pedofile" might not actually be a "pedofile" because the methods used were unjust. That person may also not want to press charges because he might feel publically embarrased if any of this information came out.
I don't believe that certain types of crimes and criminals diminish the need for law. Laws keep the people under control so everyones individual rights are not violated. "Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins." We would be in a state of chaos without laws.
Law is based on ethics and ethics is the study of what is right and wrong. What is ethical or not is based on everyones personal beliefs. Such is the case with morality. Every culture has different views and beliefs on that can differ greatly from others beliefs. CJ keeps the information private, to keep from ridiculing the targets that are innocent and PJ puts all on the line for the world to see. They both do try to protect children from predators.
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Crim112Gonzales
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Posted: Mon Nov 13th, 2006 07:20 am |
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| I agree that is would be nice if law enforcement used these methods. There is no proof that they were actually going to carry out their plans. It would also be nice if PJ kept their methods private and let law enforcement agencies deal with the publicity. PJ should be held accountable for their actions. If you violate someones rights, then is shouldn't matter who you are or what company you work for. Laws are laws and we must all obide by them!
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Jose Munoz
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Posted: Tue Nov 14th, 2006 10:14 pm |
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Jose, yes i would have to agree with you on how police officers haveing to use different strategies to catch criminals. when we see officers on the street it is good that they are held to higher standards bot morally and ethically.
I realize that Police officers have to use strategies to catch the bad guy, but there are certian moral and ethical standards that a police officer is held to so theres that expectancy to not lie although i do agree that a police officer should try to get the bad guy the best way they can ... but there are certain strategies that a police officer can do that don't break any morals or confidential issues.... but i agree that if thier gulty you can see right through thier lies.
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Jose Munoz
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Posted: Thu Nov 16th, 2006 07:22 pm |
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1) An officer is always taught new skills to use out in the field. So my answer to this would be that if the officer went over the boundaries then it would be viewed as misconduct. It would only be noble if the situation was handled in a good way.
2) I think that these volunteer groups should be under the same constitutional and ethical standards because there should not be any favoritism where one must fallow rules while others don’t have to. Everyone should all be equal.
3) As I had said in the previous question that I believe that if you are working with law enforcement that everyone needs to be treated equal and be on the same page as everyone.
4) Yes it can be different because of minors and first timers. There time may not be as long as others 5) Ethics is the study of what is right and wrong. Therefore people have different believes that are different. So what might be ok for one it may not be ok for the other. Same goes for morals and values. It is all one how one views it
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crim112Brehm
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Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2006 02:48 pm |
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| I agree with reynolds on the fact that both should want to stop internet crime. If that is the main purpose of all types of law enforcement projects, PJ, and volunteer groups then i think we can all come up with some sort of understanding of what is right and wrong. Law enforcment and volunteer groups arent going to have the same standards and rules but i think the volunteers still need to have there limits.
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crim112Bliss
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Posted: Wed Nov 29th, 2006 05:54 pm |
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Sorry about all the SIZE crap, but I couldn't get rid of it.....
Ethics be damned?
[Those who are anti-PJ are obviously trying to see both sides of the hot NBC show “To Catch a Predator,” however, despite their efforts, they are obviously misunderstanding the goals of the people who make up the group Perverted Justice. And even if perhaps anti-PJ supporters actually do understand the goals of PJ, they are surely misled with this idea of “manufacturing the news.” NBC is indeed creating fake profiles on the internet (a common enough practice on the information superhighway), and tempting pedophiles to make their move, this time being video-taped. NBC is not however making these men chat with the “underage” girls, and they are certainly not making these men come to the house with the intent to engage in sex with underage girls. The only thing that NBC is “manufacturing” is the opportunity for these sick men to be recorded fulfilling their perverted fantasies (and then exploiting them), and thus saving countless of little girls’ innocence.
While the staff of NBC has been “deputized,” they are obviously not law enforcement officers in the true sense of the word. If they were, there would be no need for local law enforcement to be standing by when these predators walk out the door. Having the staff deputized is a mere technicality in order to make the prosecution of these sick bastards go smoothly, as the information from these deputized civilians will be more likely to hold up in court. Perhaps it is the meaning of deputized that is misunderstood. To many, this word communicates the idea that civilians are instantly sworn law enforcement officials. But this act is a means for law enforcement to illicit help from the community when assistance is needed. A deputized citizen has an officers’ power for a short time, while help is needed, and these powers are relinquished when assistance is no longer immediately required. In answer to Ethicsscoreboard.com, NBC is not in the law enforcement business, they simply have a group of concerned citizens that are willing to take the extra step in an effort to keep our communities and especially our children safe. The people of PJ are willing to donate their time for a cause that could take the guy who is currently chatting with your daughter, off the internet and off the street, before he gets to your little girl.
According to Ethicsscoreboard.com, supposedly Dateline is paying the people of PJ to masquerade as children in order to “gull” pedophiles into coming to the rented house. Ethicsscoreboard.com is calling this “checkbook journalism.” Journalism or not, these people need to look at the big picture. “Gulling” people has nothing to do with what is going on. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that 13 year old girls are the gullible victims on the internet, not middle aged men with respectable jobs who are expected to have a sense of maturity and common sense, and even perhaps, some ethical decision making skills. Young girls easily fall into the trap of believing that these older men really will “make them feel good,” that these men will stay with them, giving them some security that they may be lacking, and believing that their particular predator is surely different from other older men, that he really does love them and wants to be with them forever. When a young girl goes into chat rooms, she is looking for friendship, someone to talk to, someone that she’ll have a connection with. She doesn’t often go into the chat room looking for an old man to have sex with, but internet predators make every effort to sound appealing to these girls, promising to take care of them and make them feel so good. What young affable girl doesn’t want that?
Maybe it’s because the people against PJ don’t have kids, or maybe it’s because they feel that 13 year old girls should know better then to seek friendship on the internet, or maybe they feel that child molesters should be allowed to commit their heinous crimes before they are arrested. Whatever the case, PJ is serving a just cause and putting forth every effort to make our neighborhoods safer in a legal manner. They are taking the necessary steps to become a non-profit organization that abides by all laws and regulations, and they could very well be the group that takes (off the street) the guy that your kid has been chatting with lately.
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Crim112Berry
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Posted: Tue Dec 5th, 2006 05:43 pm |
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Form reading some of the conversations on Peej I think what they are doing is sneaky but for the good of the community. What they are doing can be described as noble cause misconduct. If police did it though, it wouldn't fall under noble cause conduct. It okay for organizations to do it because they can't act on it. They can't arrest people. But the police have the power. They can get this information, take action and arrest people. So it would violate Due process. In my view Peej is getting rid of a lot of dangerous adults on the Internet that prey on little kids. Personally I don't think they should have to fall under the same constitutional and ethical standards as criminal justice agencies. Like I said earlier, they can't act on it and arrest people. All they do is gather information and give it to the police. The police take it from there. These criminals have a choice to show and meet minors. So the whole idea of them being tricked doesn’t work. How can you be tricked into doing something you want to do? I agree with corrupted justice in a sense though. I don’t think it’s ethical for Peej to publicly humiliate the men/women. If they want to use the information they’ve found they should at least not post pictures of the people with it. I don’t think that is right. They should leave that job to sex offender registries.
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Crim112Berry
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Posted: Tue Dec 5th, 2006 05:54 pm |
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I agree with Garcia. I don't think PeeJ tactics could ever be used by law enforcement. Since law enforcement has the power to arrest people it would be a form of entrapment. Groups like Peej Shouldn't be though of as law enforcement because like Garcia said they don't have the power to take law in their hands. They turn over their findings to police, who in turn then take action. I like to think of PeeJ personally as an informant. I don't think though that PeeJ should have to follow the same rules as law enforcement based solely on the fact that they can't enforce laws.
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crim112Silerrio
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Posted: Wed Dec 6th, 2006 12:03 am |
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PJ is definitely bending some ethical standards. If law enforcement behaved the way this volunteer agency does, it would definitely be misconduct, and entrapment. For some reason volunteers like the pj volunteers are not held to the law like law enforcemet agencies are. But should they be? If they were held to constitutional law, then everyone would have to be held to that law. All forms of security agencies including air port security, retail security, and everyone else, even the private citizen. Because that what these volunteers are, private citizens. It that really feesable? could we really revise the constitution to that degree? Perhaps it is possible, but it seem so unrealistic.
As for volunteers that work closely with law enforcement on a regular basis, they should abide by constitutional law. Not that it should be made mandatory, but it would make the whole opperation more legitimate, and unquestionable. For law enforcement to team up with an unethical volunteer agency reflects badly on that depatment.
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crim112Silerrio
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Posted: Wed Dec 6th, 2006 12:11 am |
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I agree with you crim 112 DeRose. PJ means well, but their tactics are somewhat questionable. It is for a good cause.
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joseac
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Posted: Wed Dec 6th, 2006 04:52 am |
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| police tactics is what makes police officers catch the bad guys and put them into behind bars. misconduct is not acceptable when the circumstances show a different perspective.
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joseac
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Posted: Wed Dec 6th, 2006 04:55 am |
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| ethics is the sense that tell us the matter between good and wrong. police officers using PJ may result in mis conduct becasue some officers use exssesive use of force when in not necessary.
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joseac
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Posted: Wed Dec 6th, 2006 04:55 am |
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| ethics is the sense that tell us the matter between good and wrong. police officers using PJ may result in mis conduct becasue some officers use exssesive use of force when in not necessary.
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joseac
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Posted: Wed Dec 6th, 2006 04:55 am |
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| ethics is the sense that tell us the matter between good and wrong. police officers using PJ may result in mis conduct becasue some officers use exssesive use of force when in not necessary.
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joseac
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Posted: Wed Dec 6th, 2006 04:55 am |
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| ethics is the sense that tell us the matter between good and wrong. police officers using PJ may result in mis conduct becasue some officers use exssesive use of force when in not necessary.
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padillo112
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Posted: Thu Dec 7th, 2006 12:09 am |
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| Is what perverted justice doing ethical. In some way is can view as such and in some way it could be viewed differently. As a society we have determined that any act against a child is intolerable. I have seen these programs many times and like most it is a train wreck. I thought that the interview with Pj was very interesting. As you read it it totally makes sense. However when you read the opposite it defiantly gets you to think. Even though yes need to get these types of people of the street, but is this the way to do it? It seems that because of the publicity as well as the television ratings has brought this argument to the forefront. Is this type of behavior ethical.? For dateline they have capitalized on this idea. Their sole purpose it to obtain ratings. Are they really concerned with children or with rating. As always it is the almighty dollar that drives this issue. I think both sides of the argument make some sense on some levels. We should not be so concerned with the political correctness when it comes to kids. If people are doing this they should get punished. My question is would there be this kind of reaction to this had it not been on dateline.? I think if anyone has unethically it would be NBC.
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sirhc9999
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Posted: Thu Dec 7th, 2006 09:49 pm |
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I believe that more departments should used PJ tactics. Reason number one being that if they were to catch these pedophiles before the deed gets done, they would save children. Second, listing their name and information would be a deterent from doing it again, and also would keep from over crowding in jails. If these pedopjiles think the police are constantly watching, then they would be less likely to hunt down our children. With concern to quesiton number two, I would have to say no, orginized volunteer groups shouldn't be held to the same standard as criminal justice practitioners. These are people who are just concerned for their children. They are doing a positive hting for the online community and should be praised for that. If we hold them to higher standards, then the pedolphile will begin to sue for harrasemnt. Then they win, and we loose.
I do not think that any crime or any criminal should diminish the need for law. Everybody should be held to the same standard. If the volunteers on PJ commit any crime while trying to bring out the pedophiles, then they should be punished also. We do not live in a vigilante society, and hopefully, we would not allow this type of crime fighter.
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